tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5108550303571033600.post5610024186195171125..comments2023-10-31T14:44:05.872+00:00Comments on Not the same stream: A question for Inclusive ChurchPaul Bagshawhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17694279608748668806noreply@blogger.comBlogger5125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5108550303571033600.post-63059857125838539622009-03-10T08:38:00.000+00:002009-03-10T08:38:00.000+00:00I don't think we are being naive as we fully under...I don't think we are being naive as we fully understand the mechanics of the game and use them to our advantage.<BR/><BR/>The Internet has made a huge difference. The unambitious now have an instant, collective voice. At the very least we are treated by the decision makers as one huge focus group. You only have to see how the blogging community's reaction to any major current event is cited by the media as a matter of course to realise the grass roots now have a bit more influence than they used to. This is why professional commentators like Giles Fraser are so against the chaotic way the blogging world operates. Me, I revel in its anarchy because it is so wonderfully human.MadPriesthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15120376342802143188noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5108550303571033600.post-76146481698574949282009-03-10T08:24:00.000+00:002009-03-10T08:24:00.000+00:00MP, I know you're right, I just keep hoping that m...MP, I know you're right, I just keep hoping that maybe, one day, someone will respond affirmatively to my concerns.<BR/><BR/>On the other hand perhaps it's a good idea to get future leaders to consider questions of power. There seems to be little or no reflection on it in the Church. <BR/><BR/>Sometimes I just can't help being naïve despite all the evidence.Paul Bagshawhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17694279608748668806noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5108550303571033600.post-64553233484702804702009-03-09T10:09:00.000+00:002009-03-09T10:09:00.000+00:00The Inclusive Church Movement is the acceptable fa...The Inclusive Church Movement is the acceptable face of rebellion. It is lead by people who are already part of the establishment and who choose their words carefully. You can guess now which of the leading lights will be elevated to the episcopacy or other high office. That is how the establishment of the Church of England has always controlled the grass roots.<BR/><BR/>Those, who are doing the spade work in the parishes will, knowingly, use these high-fliers. But groups like Inclusive Church are not the emergent church because they wish to control and be leaders as much as those they are now fighting.<BR/><BR/>There will be change because of their efforts. But it's such a boring and predictable way of going about things. At the end of the day, the structures of the Church, that make change so slow and bring derision on us, will not be affected in the slightest. (see - the rise and fall of Rowan Williams).MadPriesthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15120376342802143188noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5108550303571033600.post-32204424936248498372009-03-09T08:25:00.000+00:002009-03-09T08:25:00.000+00:00Well, yes - it is long past time that women were a...Well, yes - it is long past time that women were admitted to the episcopate. The debate now, as I understand it, is about terms for those who feel further dispossessed by the prospect.<BR/><BR/>But no revolution. The point was made at the IC meeting that the women who had hitherto known themselves to be amongst the marginalised were now demanding their share of patriarchal power. They are willingly assimilated into the existing structures rather than reforming those structures. After all that is the test of ceasing to be marginalised: gaining the power to marginalise others.<BR/><BR/>The right thing - enabling women to be full members of the body of Christ - has (almost) been done. More people are more included. But the exclusive structures may remain just as strong even as the boundary between who's in and who's out changes. <BR/><BR/>After all, who noticed when grammar school and even working class boys were admitted to the episcopacy?Paul Bagshawhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17694279608748668806noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5108550303571033600.post-83677729804721550392009-03-09T03:39:00.000+00:002009-03-09T03:39:00.000+00:00Well until it cracks the problem of women in the e...Well until it cracks the problem of women in the episcopate it won't be, that's to say it has a logjam to get past that has to blow something of a revolution down its corridors.<BR/><BR/>Much else has to be done too; attitudes regarding Mad Priest are more primal and bureaucracies find it difficult to respond to such as these.Pluralist (Adrian Worsfold)https://www.blogger.com/profile/01922153724523820866noreply@blogger.com